Pete, I thoroughly enjoyed speaking to the group Wednesday night. Thanks for this story covering the evening! Just a few comments: - I was using the SpringSource Tools Suite, which builds on Eclipse 3.3, Spring IDE 2.0.5, and Eclipse Mylyn, throughout the demo session. You're right, I didn't focus on the specific IDE features in the demo, as we were more focused on going through the latest Spring Web features (and of course the code!) The tooling, though, particularly around the management of Spring configuration, is essential! - Regarding Web Flow and debugging: Yes, today there is no flow debugger like there is a Java debugger. However, you can most certainly debug flows quickly and in a repeatable manner by writing flow unit tests, and that is what we recommend there (automated testing is a best practice in general, of course!). I do eventually expect we will have the tooling capability to step through a flow execution in real time like you can do the execution of Java code. - Regarding the roadmap: yes, we are exploring *broadening* today's flow definition language into the concept of a "site definition language", where a site can consist of many elements, where some elements can be bookmarkable pages, others can be controlled flows, others REST endpoints, etc -- all definable at the same level of abstraction in a declarative manner. Yes, we are looking at incorporating Groovy there to allow the use of script for handling user events and other user actions in a dynamic manner. This work is just getting going, and we'll be making the first of it available to the community soon for feedback. Also, we will have full support for the Web Flow 2 flow definition format in this "site definition" world for defining reusable flows! - Regarding "Spring being wrapped by others": The Spring Framework and its portfolio projects are and will always be Apache-licensed, which means they are licensed in a manner that allows and encourages them to be integrated, built on, and extended. And we like that! In that way, our work can help bring solution providers of all types competitive advantage. And it is good for us because it drives adoption of Spring and growth of the Spring community. The newly announced SpringSource Application Platform is licensed under a different license, the GPLv3, because it is a different kind of product--a next generation server platform. We wouldn't want Oracle or IBM to be able to build on our server platform to offer their own competing, closed source product, for example, hence why that license is different. Trust me, I won't get mad if someone embeds Spring Web Flow and uses it in an unique way to bring value to their customers... its designed for that, and that's why it and the other Spring projects are and will continue to be Apache licensed.